Tuesday, September 7, 2010

Where is the Wall of Separation?


First off, I must say that I have been on vacation the past 6 day. In New York for a wedding.
Good to be back!


Does the Wall of Separation only exist between Church and State, or Religion and State?


As James Madison once stated "Because if Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. It is strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States"
Under the United States Constitution, the treatment of religion by the government is broken into two clauses: the establishment clause and the free exercise clause. While both are discussed in the context of the separation of church and state, it is more often discussed in regard to whether certain state actions would amount to an impermissible government establishment of religion.


Some strict separationists claim that most, or even all, government funding of religion is unconstitutional. 
Much of the constitutional law on the subject has rested on the broad principle that government funding of religion is permissible as long as the funding does not make the government responsible for advancing a particular set of religious beliefs 
(Remember these last 5 words here).


Well, then we have this, from the Daily Caller...


U.S. Funding Mosques Abroad

Amid the ongoing controversy surrounding the planned mosque near New York’s ground zero comes the disclosure that American taxpayers are funding the construction and renovation of mosques around the world. 

The State Department’s U.S. Ambassadors Fund for Cultural Preservation (AFCP) is spending millions of dollars on at least 29 mosque-related projects in 18 countries, including Pakistan, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, and Albania. 
State Department spokeswoman Nicole Thompson told The Daily Caller website that the AFCP is a type of “diplomatic effort and outreach.” 
She said: “It is helping to preserve our cultural heritage. It is not just to preserve religious structures. It is not to preserve a religion. It is to help us as global inhabitants preserve cultures.” 
The State Department recently provided Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, Ranking Republican on the Committee on Foreign Relations, with a document explaining that the funding of mosques was given a green light in 2003. At that time the Justice Department said the Constitution did not bar using federal funds to preserve religious structures if they had cultural significance. 
But Robert Spencer, director of Jihad Watch, told The Daily Caller that funding mosque renovation and rehabilitation is “disastrously wrongheaded and unconstitutional. They are not going to win hearts and minds. It is not as if they are going to say, ‘the Americans built this mosque for us so we shouldn’t wage jihad on them.’” 
He added: “A mosque is a mosque is a mosque. It is where prayers happen. That is a religious installation.” 
And Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, said: “We have always felt this type of outreach is completely ineffective and that ultimately we have to approach it like the Cold War where we are fighting an ideology. 
“If we are going to have this long war of ideas we cannot fund these religious institutions. We can fund anti-Islamist institutions based in liberty.” 



So I guess it would be OK from here on out, that once this country elects someone who believes in Christianity, we can call funding of "Church" by "State" preserving "our" cultural heritage.
Let not forget this come this Nov and in 2012!



13 comments:

AdamsPatriot said...

I wanted to write about this, but I knew you would do so much better at it.

This is absoulte horse shit how our government, ACLU, activist judges and atheist lefties bow to this political religion, yet screw over Christians and Jews, not only in America, but all over the world!

Our hard earned, hard paid tax dollars go to fixing up foreign Mosques, to the people that hate us and are committed to our destruction...no matter what we do to kiss their assess... yet our true needs at home suffer.

This is support of Mosques and not Churches is purley a 'social justice' trait of the left.

Hey, ACLU where is your 'equal justice'?

Hypocrits!

JoeC said...

Mark and Adam, ask yourself why your really mad? is it because you looked up the list of things that were sponsored and are against historical religious site preserved or is it because you wrongly assume like alot of others on Rightwing sites this past week and a half that the US was only advancing Islamic preservation?

http://exchanges.state.gov/heritage/afcp.html

I took the time to look at all 9 years of records and they have funded non-religious and religious preservation from a number of different religions, including various christian sites, along with Jewish and Buddhist to name a few. I did find that both Islamic Mosque ruins and 14th century Christian building in need of repair received money the first year of the awards.

I wonder why 9 years after its inception, this law written by a republican, passed by a republican congress and signed by a republican president, who's juistice dept determined that cultural preservation isn't advancement of religion is a problem?

And why the people who defend government nativity scenes hate that other religions get some face time too?

Mark Adams said...

Once again, the subject goes right over your head, Joe.

First off, we are not at war with Christians nor Jews. We, as a nation, are at war with Radical Islam. The very same religion that attacked us on 9/11. Why do you folks seem to forget that day.
Second, it's got NOTHING to do with left/right, but believers/non-believers.
As AP stated "Our hard earned, hard paid tax dollars go to fixing up foreign Mosques, to the people that hate us and are committed to our destruction" and "This is absolute horse shit how our government, ACLU, activist judges and atheist lefties bow to this political religion, yet screw over Christians and Jews..." meaning here at home.
We can't erect a nativity scene on "public, funded property" here in America, but we are spending millions of "public funds" to restore them around the world.
Pretty fucked up when "OUR cultural heritage" is denied, ignore and ridiculed.
Point here is, Where is the wall of separation?

How come the ACLU, the atheist and the lefties who hate Christianity in "America" are not screaming at the top of their lungs now?
Get the point now?

JoeC said...

Mark, all you have is intolerance, hatred and some pseudo-ideology to go on and that leaves you and your ilk losing this argument.

The cultural fund preserves cultural icons of all major religions so its not advocating for one thats why the ACLU and I don't care. So lets look at some...

But as far as you and other are concerned its wrong to fund Islamic sites as long as the Taliban and AL Quadda are Muslim? Do i understand you right? Punish all Muslims?

So should we suspend the UFCP or just give it to all the rest of the religions? As for why i'm not screaming. Well i gave you one reason but the other is I think preserving old churches, mosques, synagogue and temples is cool as hell. I love history.

Christopher - Conservative Perspective said...

Who in their right f@#king mind would want to preserve a barbaric, murderous culture?

Have OPEC preserve the shit if they so cherish it!

Chris said...

Should we preserve the sites where they stoned young girls and children?

Mark Adams said...

Joe,
So what you are saying is my belief that if we, as Christian Americans, cannot utilize our tax dollar for which we pay in to, for our religions beliefs in THIS country, then that's some sort of pseudo-ideology?
And so my belief in Christ and Christianity, which the nation was founded on, is somehow false?

Man are you exposing yourself as a hater of the Christian faith.

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. But I am not going to have YOU and those who don't believe, stomp on my human and religious constitutional rights of freedom of religion. And I believe that you and folks like you are hypocrites, that it's OK to use "federal money" to prop up foreign religious site and call it rebuilding cultural heritage, but on the same page try to neglect us at home of the same expression of OUR culture with money WE pay in to the system with.

When 70% of the American people are against the NY mosque being built on that site and almost equally the same amount is against the Imam trip to the middle east on Taxpayer money is some how losing the argument, you surely are on the wrong side of public opinion and are out numbered.

And it sounds like to me you are OK with OUR tax dollar going to re-build mosques that the Taliban and AQ (and radicals like them) would use then afford Americans the same monetary support at home, as Christians, shows that the liberal left hates America and where she came from and sides with those you would just a soon to lop off your head then to stand by you.
If you think for one moment that these types of people would befriend you just because you extend an olive branch, shows the left of this country has no clue what they are up against.

But your last comment "preserving old churches, mosques, synagogue and temples is cool as hell" So you're OK with doing away with the wall of seperation, then? Or is this just your way of trying to show you don't know what opinion you have....

Mark Adams said...

Chris and Christopher, the lefties, like Joe don't care. It's OK to use our taxes to rebuild or restore our enemies place of worship, but we at home can not be afforded OUR money to build our Christian cultural heritage.

JoeC said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JoeC said...

Chris, i hard inquisition sites were up for an endowment, along with the Srebrenica mass graves.

Wouldn't want to leave your prejudice only against Islam.

AdamsPatriot said...

Joe, twice you try to justify an argument with the referral to republican this and that. Make no mistake, 'conservatives' support those that follow the consitution and those that are true conservatives.

Just because a republican did this or that or made a bad choice doesn't mean we in this blog follow them as foolishly as liberals follow Democrats. When a republican falls from conservatism we will call them out on it!

You have to be witnessing this with every primary election going on this year!

In addition, when it comes to a continuation of justifing this mosque funding subject, when liberals do something that the previous administration did, they say 'well Bush did it"! Yet when Bush as in office they constantly tore him a new asshole!

This subject isn't about Republican or Democrat, it's about America funding a 'Politically Driven Religion' Our Preists, Rabbis, Ministers, basically our religious leaders are not Politicians, are not the government, they are not the judge and executioner...the religious leaders in Muslim countries enjoy those roles and I mean 'enjoy'.

Our tax dollars go to 'fix up mosques' in foreign countries...really?!?!

What proof do we have that 'our tax dollars' actually paid for that...or did it go to fund the killing of more American's?!

As I said in a blog post long ago, liberals (not you but America's leaders) don't support a pieceful religion (Christianity) they support a religion that stones women to death, beheads nonbelievers, decieves nonmuslims, cuts off hands, puts out eyes, lashes people as a punishment. They are brutal, they are muderous, and the most pieceful muslims are so terrified of their brutal 'religious' leaders they will not speak out.

Liberals wouldn't accept waterboarding as a human method to save American lives, yet silent on Stoning women.

Liberals won't protect Americans by securing our borders and letting criminal illegal immigrants loose on American streets, but they are silent when Americans are kidnapped and imprisioned unjustifiably.

Liberals try to expunge their self guilt by sheilding their eyes to real human suffering and injusice at the hands of the ruling political 'religious' leaders that follow Islam.

And America sends them our money to further the the suffering.

Twist and spin all you want, the truth is before you!

Mark Adams said...

Your post has been removed for violation of terms. "Abuse of others commentator will not be tolerated."

Mark Adams said...

Joe,
You want to come here and discuss something with me, like an adult, Fine.
However, since this is MY blog, I will not tolerate abusiveness.
Remember it, please.